SARM/PED Discussion Post

Hi Tim,

What support supplements did you land on for liver and cholesterol?

Thanks for your feedback Tim. Previous steroid cycles included combinations of: Test E, Deca, Anavar and Tren at dosages typically used by bodybuilders at the lower end of the scale. I would take Aromasin on each cycle ranging from 12.5mg/day up to 25mg/day depending on the amount of Test I was taking. I always had bloods taken pre, during and post cycle to ensure that AI dosage and PCT's were properly dosed. Running these cycles I did get excellent strength gains in my chest, shoulders and biceps but as mentioned previously little gains in my legs. For example incline leg press I could do 50kgs x 10 before a cycle and after 8 weeks on a 500mg/week Test E I could only do 55kgs x 10.

I have responded to your comments under the sub headings below:

"gains....disappear once I cycle off the compound"

As mentioned above I regularly had bloods taken to ensure that estrogen was controlled during cycles and during PCT along with Test levels.

I did go on TRT (blasting and cruising) for a period of 3 years as my natural test levels were at the lower end and I thought given my condition the benefits should outweigh the risks. Over this time my leg strength still declined due to progression of my condition despite having elevated Test levels for long periods of time. During this time I battled to keep my haemoglobin within the normal range despite regularly donating blood. As a result of not seeing leg strength gains and health concerns relating to elevated haemoglobin, I decided to go off TRT. Before making this decision I tried to involve an endocrinologist to prescribe TRT and monitor my hormones/bloods but he wasn't interested in helping me given that TRT involves some risks.

"...very little improvement to my leg muscles."

I have tried isolation exercises for the legs but it seems that the natural decline from my condition is greater than any benefits gained from exercise with or without PED's. Does exercise slow my rate of decline? I am unsure. What I do know is that if I have some time off from exercise it appears that all gains are lost. This can happen even if I stop exercising for a month.

"exercising leg muscles is that my muscles are fatigued for days"

The fatigue that I experience seems to be different from normal DOMS. It seems to be like a type of nerve fatigue. The muscles themselves do not appear to be that sore but the nerve signal to the muscles seems to be weakened for days after exercise. This is where the GHRP6/CJC1295 seems to reduce this nerve fatigue allowing for faster recovery and noticeable leg strength gains.

I might try your supplement recommendations to see if I can further improve recovery.

Would you be willing to go into a bit more detail as to what your cycles were e.g. 400mg Test-C a week and AI/SERMs used? Below I've tried my best to address your points and hopefully give some help, although you might already know most of this:

"gains....disappear once I cycle off the compound" This could be due to requiring a stronger PCT. If your testosterone drops too much or oestrogen spikes then that will cause a lot of issues. This happens to anyone taking PEDs so is likely exacerbated for people with a muscle wasting condition.

The good news is that the muscle itself should at least remain as PEDs help you recruit more muscle fibers along with satellite cells, however the muscle can quickly lose volume. You could also look into taking pure Growth Hormone or other Growth Hormone secretagogues (GHRP6/CJC1295 is an example which you have had success with) as they cause muscle hyperplasia (more cells) where as AAS and SARMs cause muscle hypertrophy (bigger cells).

You also have to be careful of nerve death as that is currently not reversible (debatable) and that will lead to muscle wastage. The solution to this would be simply not to come off PEDs and weigh the risk of PEDs against your condition. An example would be staying on permanent TRT issued by a doctor and seeing how that goes.

"...very little improvement to my leg muscles."

That could be related to nerve death or issues struggling to activate the exact muscles. See if you can find some legs muscle isolation exercises and target the muscles that are weakest. As a side note, CMT seems to cause wastage of the hamstrings first so you want to target them.

"exercising leg muscles is that my muscles are fatigued for days"

More good news: that's totally normal. One of the world's best bodybuilders would work his legs so hard he would be sore for 5 days and that is with a wide range of PEDs and perfect health.

What you want to make sure is that your protein intake is high to help with recovery along with any anti-inflammatories (NAC, CoQ10 etc) to just help speed up that healing process.

Also 3g of Lions Mane a day could help if it is CMT as that helps regulate GABA-B receptor and that seems to be at the core of all CMT 1A issues.

I have a rare undiagnosed muscle wasting condition with symptoms most closely resembling CMT. I have significant atrophy in the legs, ankles and glutes. Some atrophy in the forearms and hands but no where near as much compared to my legs.

Over the last 10 years I have tried a large range of PED's including many different steroids, sarms and peptides. With steroids and sarms I have noticed significant strength gains in muscles that are less affected by my condition but very little improvement to my leg muscles. Any small gains that I get from steroids or sarms disappear once I cycle off the compound. This is partly due to withdrawal of the compound but also less of a desire to work the leg muscles without having the assistance of the PED.

The other issue I experience with exercising leg muscles is that my muscles are fatigued for days after the exercise. Then once fully recovered I am then facing another workout session to repeat the same fatigue cycle. I am interested to see if others are experiencing muscle fatigue after exercise and how you manage it. When exercising your legs are you working out to complete muscle failure or do you stop short of this.

Lastly I have had some benefits taking a peptide called GHRP6/CJC1295. It seems to improve strength of my affected muscles as well as recovery following exercise. I know that my condition is not diagnosed as CMT but this peptide might offer some benefits for people with CMT.

I'm so happy that you managed to find something that helped and that my experience could help you. Also it's very interesting that you had success with CMT 1X as a lot of people have issues with wastage but the research on 1X is more limited. So currently I am in a study at a major hospital in London so I am hoping that this could help show them the success you can have with PEDs when used correctly. They will be taking 3 sets of MRIs of my leg muscles over 3 years so this could be the proof required to show them the benefits of this treatment.

Thankyou so much for sharing you experience. that alongside my own research informed my decision to take oxandrolone in an attempt to improve my quality of life. I have CMT 1X, walk with fixed AFO’s. Hands are also affected. I’m 50 years old, female and post menopausal, was slightly overweight (a stone I guess) was feeling weak, back pain and neck pain from bad posture and walking like robocop all my life. Anyway I guess I reached a point where I felt, especially hormonally, that I didn’t have much to lose. the results, in summary are that I just wish I’d done this 20 years ago! I’m no stranger to the gym, but like you, never felt I was getting anywhere. Now I have strength, motivation, fat loss. Let me be clear. It’s not fixing my cmt but I just feel better, my posture has noticeably improved. I’ve gained muscle. i took my daughters dog out for a bracing walk this morning and this is the kind of thing I would usually try to avoid. My baseline bloods were good, I’m just waiting for my next blood result. It is early days. I am taking this seriously, and will update if anyone is interested. It’s just such a shame that this is not being explored further.